Chris Morgan Talks KAATSU
Episode Description
Olympic swim coach Chris Morgan is the head coach of Gator Swim Clublocated in Massachusetts. During these times of lockdowns, quarantines, and shelter-in-place and stay-at-home ordinances, Morgan gives backyard swimming pool workouts, Zoom dryland training, and KAATSU Aqua workouts to his 300+ member team.
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Transcript
Okay, we’re here with Chris Morgan, an Olympic swim coach who is the head coach for the Gator Swim Club in Massachusetts. There it is right there. The Gator Swim Club has a long successful history in the Northeast, but we want to dive right into KAATSU Aqua. And Chris, you are the world’s most experienced, most prolific KAATSU Aqua, we call master specialist. About when did you start doing KAATSU Aqua?
I started, well, learning and using it right when I discovered and met Steve, you, back in 2012 at Harvard University. We started, you know, just right into it without any real guidelines, just a lot of experimentation and had some great results right away, especially with the sprinters. I was more or less responsible for the sprint group. So it’s kind of where I had my own little laboratory and just started using it with the Harvard Women’s Team.
Statements made in this podcast have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. For more information about KAATSU and KAATSU products, visit KAATSUglobal.com. That’s K-A-A-T-S-U-Global.com.
Great. And now you’ve got, what, almost eight years of experience. Can you go through very specific drills and sets that you do? We’ll start with sprint freestyle and then we’ll go all the way to distance freestyle and then each of the strokes. Right. So I think the first thing that people need to understand is, you know, whether you’re going to be, first of all, are you going to use the armbands or are you going to use the leg bands? And you can use them interchangeably within the sprint freestyle, middle distance freestyle and distance freestyle. But what I’ve found, and this is no, you know, this is just me, is it’s kind of, you know, are you a dog person or a cat person?
So a lot of the swimmers, whether they’re sprint middle distance or distance freestylers, there’s kind of a little bit like, you know, not only do they want to do arms or do legs. Now, it also depends on, you know, sprint is really leg driven. So with the sprinters, I do probably do 65% to 75% more of the work with the leg belts on. Whereas with, oh, I apologize, with the middle distance and distance freestylers, especially because we start to implement other equipment, some hand paddles, stretch cords will be a little bit more arm-driven. So for the sprinters, an example of some leg sets that we’ll do, or sprint sets that we’ll do, wearing the leg belts are a lot of 25s.
I work them till failure, so failure is good with KAATSU, KAATSU Aqua. Excuse me, Chris. When you mean by failure, working to failure, does that mean when their stroke mechanics go south or is that when they’re not hitting a specific interval? Great question. It’s actually, it’s both. You know, we’ve talked before.
I use a lot, and I credit a colleague, Krista Hoski, who lives in Santa Clarita, California, who’s the head coach of Paseo Aquatics. He kind of coined the term, you know, or he uses the three Ps, sort of a physical, a physiological, and a psychological. And with all three of those, you can have failure in all three. So for me, the most important thing with all of the swimmers is when they get that failure that affects their technique. So, you know, it could be from all three. So they could have a physical failure where they just, they’re so full of lactic acid. They want to keep going, so they’re psychologically good. And physiologically, they’re, you know, they’re still able to go, but just physically with so much lactic acid, they can’t go, affects their technique.
Physiologically is, you know, that also can affect their technique because even though their brain wants to and they’re strong, if just physiologically they’re just done, that’ll affect their technique. And then just the psychology when, you know, they just give up. So it’s kind of a, it’s not a very good answer to your question, but really all, you know, the failure is technical failure, but it comes from physiological or psychological or physical failure.
Got it. I’m gonna just, before you get into specific drills and sets, both leg and arm driven, I want you also to explain the difference between race pace and race pain when you’re using KAATSU Aqua bands. Yeah, it’s very important. So it’s hard for swimming coaches. So all of you swim coaches out there, we have based our entire career off, you know, race pace. Oh, they need to be at race pace. And that’s great.
So, you know, if you want to swim one minute in 100 breaststroke and you’re breaking it down into 425s, well, you know, they need to be hitting, you know, you just break that minute up, so it’s 15 seconds. So if they’re off, you’re up, you’re not on race pace. So you’ve won 16 seconds. Important, but it’s always much easier to hit race pace, especially when you’re rested and you’re breaking the swims up.
Race pain is when it’s that pain that a swimmer feels at the end of a race. So, you know, everyone’s pain and everyone’s tolerance to that pain is a lot is different, but I feel, and I found with many, many hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sets and working with many, many, many different swimmers, that the first time they put the KAATSU aqua on and they swim something at race pace, the first thing they do is they pop up sometimes in the middle of a lap and they’ll say, “Oh, that’s how I feel at the end of my race.” And that’s when sort of the light bulb went off in my head. I’m like, “Ah.” So they’re able to finally get that race pain. So with KAATSU Aqua, you can get to that race pain much earlier than it would normally take in a hard set. Was that sort of? Yes, yes. So perfect, perfect. So go ahead with your different drills and sets for sprinters.
Well, so I think with sprinters, ’cause they are special, you know, well, all the swimmers are special, but sprinters, you know, are the ones usually are the ones who are accused of being the laziest, but in fact, you know, a 50 freestyle can hurt if it’s done correctly, just a little bit shorter pain. So for the sprinters, again, as I mentioned earlier, you know, I do a lot of leg-based swims, so a lot of 25s.
We will do anywhere between 12 and 16, 25s. We, of course, always have done KAATSU cycles before, and usually it can be either in the middle of our practice or more towards the end where we’ve already done some aerobic work, some skills, some drills, some aerobic or strong kicking. But an example of a set we’ll do with leg belts on, again, 12 to 16 25s. What I will sometimes do is every fourth 25, I’ll call it recovery kick, but even though they have the KAATSU belts on their legs, it’s not very recovery. So even though they, again, go back to the psychological part, think they’re recovering, they’re actually still continually loading lactic acid into those legs.
So when they get to the next round of 325s before the fourth again, you know they’re constantly, constantly working hard, heart rate goes up, and I found it’s actually really interesting that they actually feel like there’s a little bit of a proprioceptive feedback where when they wear the leg belts, they feel like they have a stronger kick. I haven’t really studied why, but it’s been a common response from the athletes that when they wear the leg belts and they sprint, they feel like, even though their legs are tired, they feel like their legs are strong. Got it. And can you give us an example when you’re doing 12, 25s for a good national level swimmer? What kind of intervals are we talking about here?
So I usually go, I’ll do the intervals anywhere in freestyle, especially for sprinters, anywhere between 20 seconds to 30-second interval per 25. You know The difference between a 20 second interval and a 30-second interval is huge. So you know if they’re, again, using the KAATSU bands, arms or legs, you know but we’ve been talking about legs and they’re doing 25s on 20, and I asked them to do 16.
And by the time they get to number 11, they’re going 21, 22 seconds while they miss the interval. So for me, I know that that athlete has failed, but you know we record it and we know next time we’re trying to go beyond 11 on that same interval. If I want them to succeed and hit the 16, I’ll usually change the interval to a 30-second interval so they know they can get the 16 in at race pain, plus race pace.
Again, race pace secondary to race pain. I know that’s a little bit outside of the box for some people to think about, but the proof is in the pudding because the results I’ve had kids get faster real quick. When you say the faster real quick, can you give us one or two examples? You don’t have to say the names, just of time drops that you’ve seen over the course of a season. Yeah, I’ve seen when I first started and was learning both from Steven and just from doing my own research is I had one athlete who dropped while he dropped in a hundred yard freestyle. Again, drops are always what we’re shooting for and drops will happen. But it was the period that he dropped was just over a few months from a 47 high in the 100 yard freestyle to a 44. So we started using it. This was years ago. It was started in the fall, late September, early October with a best time of 47 from the previous year. And within two and a half months when we got to the junior nationals in December, that particular athlete had dropped to a 44. For me, a three-second drop over two and a half months is, that’s a lot. Yeah That was one example. Another athlete I worked with a female who actually had a shoulder problem and we were using KAATSU more on land for rehab.
So we were doing a lot of KAATSU cycles and a lot of just real with my background in not physical therapy but as a sports scientist and knowing a lot about human movement is we did a lot of sort of we adapted some physical therapy exercises on land for her shoulder to do the rehab. Found that already in the water she was getting better. We did a lot of leg-based KAATSU Aqua legs, a backstroker, and she dropped from in the course of a year, literally in one year from a 109 100 meter backstroke to a 102 made Olympic trials. This was back in 2016 and ended up swimming at University of Georgia. So real specific examples that for me, it was the only thing that we changed. Got it. Now let’s move up to middle distance, freestyle.
So 200 to 400 meters or 500 yards. Do you have anything different for those athletes? Yeah, again, it’s real interesting. I take a lot of feedback from the athletes. Again, you know when we get to the middle distance, it’s again the cat-dog thing. Do you want to do arms? Do you want to do legs? Of course, I have my input. But I’d say there it’s a little more, it’s kind of half and half on what they like and what I want to use with them. Now, with the middle distance, we’ll still use a lot of 25s, but we’ll also go into using 50s. Speaking about 50s, again, freestyle intervals, very, very similar to regular intervals that we would use in a set.
But I find, and again, through experience working with you, Steve, and with other coaches who’ve also started to implement KAATSU, is using a minute for the interval, it’s allowed me to see, well, it gives me time to check in with the athlete on what’s their race pain, continually checking the capillary refill time, the CRT, and lets the lactic acid build up a little bit.
So, you know, if you continually swim again with the sprinters, I think it’s much different. But if I were to have an athlete do KAATSU Aqua bands on their arms, some 850s on a 45-second interval, I feel as though they’re able to succeed much easier than doing them on a minute. My understanding of the physiology is that the lactic acid builds up a little bit. And when they push off the wall, you can see it in their face.
They have a little bit of a, oh, you know, when they push off. So what I like to do for the middle distance freestylers, when they’re using their arms, we’ll talk about arms, is I like to use paddles. So we don’t, it’s not pulling. I want them to have all the mechanics. So no pull buoy. Again, you can, but what I like to do is full stroke swimming with paddles. You know, they’ve got the bands on, they’ve got the paddle on their arm. It really, really is, it’s fun to watch them suffer because it’s, you know, swimmers are tough. And even though they have the pain from the KAATSU Aqua bands or the, you know, they’re hitting their race pain, the paddles help them kind of maintain their race pace. So you kind of think, well, is that cheating? Well, I don’t think it’s, you know, cheating to get to your race pace because you have all that lactic acid in your– So it’s kind of like equal.
I think you put the paddle on and you have the bands on, it kind of becomes equal to swimming with paddles and no bands or bands with no paddles. Again, it’s just one idea I’ve used for the middle distance freestylers. 850s, 1250s. Sometimes I’ll descend. So if we’re doing 1250s, we’ll descend one to six and then we’ll hold race pace and especially race pain on the 7th through the 12th 50. Wow. And how do you incorporate the legs with the middle distance swimmers? Similar to the sprinters, but what I like to do is because, you know, again, it’s a lot of trial and error. And sometimes the swimmers after just, they’ve become more and more experienced. They know what they want for sets. But what we’ll do is, what we’ll do is we’ll do, we’ll put the leg belts on and we’ll do like 150 kick continuous on a board, kind of as a prep set. And then we’ll do 225’s All Out Kick, All Out Kick, followed by 450s, what I call leg driven. So they have the belts on. They’ve done 150 just kind of steady kick, I call it to activate or prep set. They’ll do 225s all out kick, 30 second interval, and then 450s at race pain, race pace. And then we’ll repeat that two or three rounds. Oh wow.
Yeah, it’s tough. It’s really tough. Yeah. And then all of this, whether it’s the sprinters and the middle distance, and we’ll talk about distance, you’re not throwing away your traditional swim sets. You’re still doing your warm-up and everything. You’re just incorporating KAATSU within your workout, correct? Correct. Correct. So again, something that took, it didn’t take me a long time.
You know I’ve been labeled a sprint coach, which is funny. I’ve also been told that you know I’m always looking at the toys and whether it’s KAATSU Aqua or paddles or stretch cords or mono fins or snorkels or swimming with sticks or other stuff. But there’s a piece of me deep down inside and it probably comes from one of my mentors when I first started coaching at Stanford.
I was working with Richard Quick, with the women’s team, but Skip Kenny on the men’s side, kind of a little bit old school. I still really believe in the old school, a little bit of aerobic swimming. And I think mostly I believe in it because of the psychological part. We spoke about that earlier, not all season. So I’ll start each training cycle, three cycles per year with some old-school aerobic swimming.
But getting back to your question, you know it’s neither a piece of equipment or a, you know, it’s sort of a hybrid of what I’ve spoken before of a swimming energy system, whether you’re thinking of threshold or sprint or endurance. I believe it’s the hybrid of equipment and one of the training energy systems. And there’s no other way to do it than swimming, no other way. I’m convinced and I would argue with anyone to that point. Got it. So let’s move up to the distance swimmers, you know, the 1,000 or the 1,650 yard or the 1,500 meters. How do you train those athletes with KAATSU? Great question. So I would say most of the training I do for the distance swimmers is the arm, 85% is KAATSU Aqua armbands.
Again, it’s a little bit because of some trial and error. And, you know, a lot of them don’t kick anyway, right? We always, you know, it’s, you know, whether they have a two beat kick or a four beat kick or a six beat kick, I will have the base pressure be a little bit lighter or a little bit not so tight so that they can endure a little bit longer. So we’ll do the KAATSU cycles to warm up again as always. And then a real common set, I’ll reveal one of my secrets, is 24/25s on 25-second intervals.
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So again, like the sprinters, a tight interval, but we’ll do 24 25s on 25. And we’ll do the first 12, just kind of smooth and steady. Again, they have the armbands on, so they’re already reaching that race pain. And then the last 12 are at race pace race pain. So really cranking. So whatever our, you know, our goal time is in the 500, the athletes I work with, they know that goal time. We’ll do them to a turn. So they’ll push off, I’ll start the stopwatch, they’ll do it to a turn. And really, because I like to keep them concentrating, I won’t tell them their time unless they’re off. So if they hit their goal time, I tell them right on, you’re on pace, you’re on pace. I’ll let them miss one. But if they miss two, it doesn’t even matter if it’s in a row. Any two, we’ll call it for that set. We’ll take the belts off, we’ll swim a little easy. And then the distance swimmers, I’ll usually have them finish with, I call it kind of a finisher. We’ll do four more 50s, really just kind of all out swimming on a minute. And that’s that for the day. And what I found is they are so frustrated when they can’t make all 24, 25s. I found that once they do, that’s when we start, we have two, that’s what’s so great about KAATSU.
We can change the pace. We can also change the base pressure. So, you know, once they’re succeeding, we’ll tighten the bands up. And then, you know, I have a young athlete who’s at Stanford now as a freshman, really did well with the KAATSU Aqua belts on his arms. And, you know, he, another one, you know, again, he progressed over his junior and senior year in high school, but, you know, going from a 445 in the 500 freestyle to a 420. Wow. Again, I believe a lot of it. We did some distance swimming. Again, probably not as much as other kids going 420. We did a lot more KAATSU Aqua with him. Wow, wow. Okay, so let’s shift to the strokes, the butterfly backstroke, breaststroke. Because you’re teaching teenagers, basically junior high school and high school students.
Let’s talk about the 50, 100, and the 200 on each of those strokes. First question is, do you do KAATSU aqua, whether you’re a butterfly or backstroke or breaststroke? Is there any difference between those three strokes? To whether we do it or do not do it. No, no. Whether the KAATSU sets that you do do are any different amongst the butterflyers or with the backstrokers or with the breaststrokers? So that’s a great question.
I think, again, if I had to put it in percentages, the majority of the butterflyers that I have tend to not only themselves as athletes want to do the leg belts, leg bands, leg belts. So most of the butterflyers are using the leg belts. I would say most of the back strokers are also using the leg belts, but I think it’s a little bit more arms and backstroke. Whereas the breaststrokers, I find a majority of them. And I think just because of, you know, breaststroke is very unique, right? And it’s the only stroke where you recover, for the most part, your arms underwater. I find not only do most of them prefer, but myself, I like just because of the proprioceptive feel, I think the feel, you know, we always talk about feel for the water is really important in breaststroke. So I would say that more of the athletes are using the arms. Again, you know, there could be, you can use arms or legs with both, but I would say majority of the butterflies are using legs, backstrokers more half and half, and breaststrokers, their arms. Then again, it’s a question of are they a sprinter? You know, are they swimming the 50 or are they swimming the 200? I believe, and we’ve had this conversation, Steve, that I think there’s an untapped resource for people to get better underwater.
You know, there’s a lot of controversy about training underwater, breath hold swimming. With KAATSU Aqua on your legs, you don’t have to. Because if you’re going beyond 15 meters with the leg belts on, you don’t have them tight enough, first of all. And you can’t do sorry, I sort of went off on a tangent. Yeah. If you could repeat those last few sentences. So I believe that with the KAATSU Aqua Bands on your legs specifically, there’s really an untapped sort of training modality of using them to train underwater. We don’t have to do 25s underwater. We don’t have to do extended breath hold swimming. You can do with the KAATSU Aqua. So very good for flyers, very good for backstrokers.
Simple 6, 8, 10, 25s, kick underwater to 12 and a half, and then easy kick the rest of the way. The easy kick is not that easy because again, their legs are just pumping with lactic acid. But then what I do, so here’s a specific set, backstrokers and butterflies. We will do 825s. Now here I give them more rest. I’ll do these on 45 seconds. I like them to recover. I like the lactic acid to build up. I like them to have a lot of lactic acid in their legs because then they don’t have to go 15 meters underwater. So we’ll do 825s with the leg belts on. On 45 seconds, we’ll kick 12 and a half all out underwater kick. Finish easy kicking the rest of the way. Then we’ll take the belts off, swim an easy 50, and then we’ll do 225s.
Sometimes I’ll put their fins on, 425s if they have fins on with no KAATSU Aqua, full 25s underwater. Not only do they feel fast, they are fast, and they’re doing that with a lot of lactic acid. So being a bit of a scientist, I really feel that, you know, the neuromuscular and the physiological effect is their legs are completely engorged with not only with blood, but with lactic acid. And then they’re able to do the 425s or 225s with fins on underwater because they’re not fatigued. Their lungs are not fatigued. They haven’t held their breath that much prior to that. I don’t know if that makes sense. Yeah, no, it’s ingenious. And really, they get without ever going 25s underwater, they’re 15 meters underwater, it becomes very fast.
You have to do it often. I like to do it minimum, twice a week, an underwater kick set with KAATSU bands on, minimum. Again, you know I’m still writing the book, right? So there’s a lot more science out there that we have to see what are the ideal. But just with those simple, that simple set twice a week, the kids are getting faster. Wow. And then if you’re seeing such a dramatic increase in their breakout speed, what do you do for their starts?
Do you do anything specific with their starts? Yeah. The interesting thing is starts, you can work on legs or arms. You might think, oh, well, the start is primarily from the legs. Well, you know the fact that we’re coming down on the blocks and holding, there’s also, but what I’ll do to work on starts with the leg belts on, the leg band, excuse me, is we’ll do some simple jumps off the blocks.
So literally jumping like you do when you learn in swim school, right? Jump in, feet first to work on just being explosive, to work on being powerful. It’s hard for them. You know Again, because all of you know KAATSU already, so you understand. But repetition of jumps, then we’ll transition into regular starts. You know, we won’t do a lot of start drills, but what we’ll do is, you know, quite a few starts.
Again, whether we’ve done four or five jumps and then four or five starts, we’ll always take the belts off and then we’ll do a couple perfect starts. The response is always the same. Oh wow, my start feels so good. My start feels more explosive. And if you do it once, never do it again. No, you won’t notice the difference, but the consistency of it, doing it twice a week, three times a week. And then with the arms on, same thing, working on reacting. So what I’ll do is I’ll sometimes just do things right before the start, so we’ll work on, you know, just reacting quickly with their hands or, you know, just standing. I’ll have them close their eyes, react with their hands, just standing. And then we’ll go on to some regular starts. Yeah. So we’re talking, what about backstroke starts? Yeah. Backstroke, same thing.
I haven’t done, in all honesty, a lot of KAATSU Aqua arms with backstroke, but a ton with their legs. You know, and what I will do is I’ll actually put the, we’re fortunate enough at our pool, we have some touchpads. I’ll put a touchpad in or we even have a couple of the Phineas ledges that are really easy to put in. And just work on starts. Now again, I have a sequence of drills. Everyone knows them. You can see them all over on Go Swim and just different drill sequences. We’ll do it with the belts on. So not only are they doing a good backstroke start drill, but they’ve got the KAATSU Aqua on their legs. And again, engorging the blood, lactic acid. It’s hard for them, but then we’ll take them off and they feel like their start. Not only do they feel it, but over time, starts are so much better. And the reaction time is so much better. Wow. So we talked about your use of KAATSU in the pool with the freestylers, butterflies, backstrokes, and breaststrokers, starts, turns, breakouts, et cetera. But what I like about your use of KAATSU is just revolutionary on the recovery side. I mean, you’re using KAATSU in between prelims and finals. You’re using them the night before race. Can you explain how you use KAATSU for recovery?
Yeah, exactly as you said. So we’ll use it between prelims and finals, but we’ll also use it between events. So it’s sometimes a challenge because just the demand is much more than the supply. So you mean you have so many kids that are doing so many events and you only have so many KAATSU cycle 2.0s. Is that what you’re saying? Correct. Correct. Correct. So you know fortunately, you know getting to a point where convincing some parents that it’s worth the purchase is not difficult. So that’s the next step because then I won’t even have to worry about it. But we use between events, especially that’s where I sort of prioritize my top athletes, if it’s between events.
But when we get back to rest at the hotel, especially on a travel meet, I will say that it’s sort of a new thing I’ve done this season is for the smaller meets, you know it’s almost like it’s so incredible how well they recover that for the pre-season meets and the mid-season meets, I actually don’t let them do cycles because I want them to be more tired. That’s just me personally. And they’re begging for it. Oh, coach, can I KAATSU? I’m like, no, you can’t. Because they know and they know they recover so much faster. So it’s kind of like a similar philosophy that a lot of coaches use to a tech suit. You know They won’t wear a tech suit and then you know maybe mid-season for one meet. Oh yeah, okay, well, we’ll wear a tech suit on this. I’ll do kind of the same thing. Okay, you can use the KAATSU cycle 2.0 to recover here. But at the championship meets, we use it all the time. And especially at the end of the finals. And again, I like to have them cycle their legs and their arms. As the meet goes, I feel like most athletes and most swimmers and most coaches out there will say the same thing. It’s usually their legs. You see kids doing ice baths.
You see people doing Normate tech, but they see us and we’re doing KAATSU Cycle on our legs and their legs are always, we have really good legs at the end of a meet. So again, I don’t need somebody to show me a scientific paper. I’ve seen it in front of me. My lab is right in front of me and the kids recover really well at the meets, especially the championship meets when we use the KAATSU cycle 2.0. Great.
I like how your kids use KAATSU as a verb. Coach, can I KAATSU? Yeah, they do. Can I KAATSU? Yeah. They use it as a verb and sometimes it’s a swear word when they’re at the end of 24, 25s. Got it, got it. And I mean, you’ve used it for your water pole players at MIT. I mean, you’ve used it on your master swimmers that you coach with all their aches and pains of being around on this earth for 60, 70 years.
So maybe next time I’d like to talk about your use of KAATSU with the older swimmers. And whether it’s an older swimmer who’s got a sore back or a bum shoulder or an injured knee. But today has been fantastic. And I love your description, very specific descriptions of all the events. Do you have anything you want to add that you may have missed?
No, I mean, that was just a little bit of a lot more information that you know certainly is up here and also with Steve over there. But no, you know I recommend to everyone to at least open your mind to the fact that KAATSU, both on land with the Cycle 2.0 and the KAATSU Aqua in the water, it can really, it really is for me, it’s the future of getting better in swimming, really. I mean, that’s it. Pure and simple. Great. Well, Chris, thank you very much. And we’ll get out of this quarantine lockdown shelter in place soon enough. Yes. All right. Take care.
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